Speaker 1: 0:07

Welcome back to another episode of Hot or Hype. Today we're talking AI and we're talking marketing. First of all, let's introduce David, our guest today. David, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Speaker 2: 0:18

Good morning everyone. Yes, I'm David Uvins. I'm the head of marketing for Seagrass Boutique Hospitality Group. This is a full-service restaurant organization, multi-brand, multi-unit, with venues across Australia and also in the Middle East. Professionally, my first life was in fast-moving packaged goods across Unilever, kimberley, clark, johnson, johnson. Then I switched to retail or retail slash hospitality, joining Yum Brands, originally as the CMO for the Australian New Zealand business. Then I relocated to the US as CMO for Taco Bell USA and then, on returning to Australia, I did a few different things and found my way into the Seagrass organization and have been here for several years and have led the marketing program since then.

Speaker 1: 1:06

That's an amazing career you've had and thank you for joining us. Look, I'm Andrew, as always, here co-hosting again with Olivia. There's a question that's burning my mind today about AI in hospitality. Is AI the new maitre d' Is? Is there a certain amount of um expectation for people when they walk through the door to to your restaurants, that, uh, you know what they want, and is ai a solution for that?

Speaker 2: 1:33

uh, it's yes and no, so ultimately the answer is yes. Right, I don't think we're there yet. Hospitality is not very progressive in a, in the if iize, the operational side of hospitality is not particularly progressive. Limitations around antiquated POS systems, limitations around high turnover of staff and venues these things inhibit the direct interaction with the guest. Having said all of that, though, from a reservation systems point of view and collecting first-party customer data that allows us to understand the behavior of individuals and groups, where that is progressing quite well, and I think AI, sitting on top of that information, will inevitably help us to identify customer behavior as they approach a restaurant, to be able to introduce ourselves to them and say, for example Andrew, you know you're a lover of Shiraz, we happen to have this fantastic bottle of 2019, something or other. Would you like that? So we will get there, but we are not there yet.

Speaker 3: 2:38

I do like that. You did mention that it sits on top of data, and getting the data and the systems kind of working first is integral for the AI to be successful, so I think that's definitely something that makes a lot of sense to me.

Speaker 1: 2:54

Rich first party data and data quality always matters.

Speaker 2: 2:57

Yeah, so in our particular example, we use Seven Rooms as the booking platform. We use Seven Rooms as the booking platform. It has its own flaws in the sense that it's easy to have duplicate profiles of people and deduplicating that information is not straightforward. But even in their context, they are very shortly introducing an AI agent to assist us with managing the influx of people trying to make bookings. To assist us with managing the influx of people trying to make bookings, so at the moment we have call centers with human beings answering phones In addition to people making bookings online. The human element has its limitations the hours they work, the number of calls they can handle, and so on. And so Seminarooms will introduce an AI agent, which means there's an unlimited capability to answer phone calls 24-7, which will take the pressure off the agents and allow the agents to deal with more intricate inquiries associated with dietary requirements, allergens, functions, things that are more complex as opposed to. Can I get a booking at 7pm on a Friday, gotcha?

Speaker 3: 4:00

No doubt you've been watching what Wendy's have rolled out up here as well, with their drive-through being able to do that completely automated through AI kind of systems as well.

Speaker 2: 4:09

Yeah, exactly, and in full-service restaurants we have the advantage versus QSR or fast food in the sense that the customer is willingly giving us their first name, last name, email and phone number. We know what table they sit on and therefore we know, from the POS side of things, what they are purchasing. So, we have an inherent advantage in the customer identifies themselves.

Speaker 3: 4:32

And the ability to curate experiences for them. That are a little bit more white-gloved.

Speaker 2: 4:39

Yeah, looking at purchase frequency, for example, people who dine regularly as opposed to people who dine at one time and being able to recognize those customers and provide a different level of service with a different experience for more loyal customers is increasingly important in the restaurant business.

Speaker 1: 4:59

I think, the AI journey for a customer or for the restaurant itself. You know optimal seating times based on preferences of customers, staff recommendations. You know this couple usually orders oysters or down to personalized follow-ups. So the chef thought you'd like to try the truffle tasting next week. So you've got at least a clear three phases of engagement there that AI can really have an impact. So is that where you're seeing the hot AI stuff happening right now? Or what are you seeing that's hot right now for full-service restaurants and AI?

Speaker 2: 5:35

I think it comes in two completely separate components, right.

Speaker 2: 5:39

The first component is on the operational side, like we've just been discussing right, where you know, for instance, you visited last week, we've scraped your data, we've understood what you purchased and the next time you visit we can literally refer to what you purchased previously and say would you like to have that same experience or something different? That's on the operational side and that's one characteristic. And then purely on the marketing, functional side, you know content creation, organic search you know Google is evolving the whole organic search proposition pretty rapidly from an AI point of view to have long form you know long form search terms rather than just standard old keywords and also content creation. We're already using AI to generate certain artwork, not necessarily. There's sort of two parts One is the sort of the real stuff, you know user generated content, and then one is all the artwork we use to curate the sort of the look and feel of the brand for menus and menu covers and website elements and so on. We're already using AI in that context to complement the human element of design.

Speaker 3: 6:51

I think that's probably touching on something that would be the hype side of it obviously replacing entire functions with AI that would replace your marketing team or your marketing creative team. I think that is definitely very much hype right now, as opposed to having something that complements a human. Is that kind of your view?

Speaker 2: 7:14

100% yes, because my view of the marketing role is more that that person is a conductor right and they have a number of members of the orchestra. So, in this case, tools that they use whether it be social media organically or paid, or SEO or web design or promotions creative development. So these individuals need to coordinate across a scope of actions. Some of those actions can be automated or replaced with AI components, but the individual still needs to coordinate the overall structure of things and determine how best to continuously evolve and bring the concept of the brand to life as well as facilitate the revenue from a store-level point of view. So, in super simple terms, marketing and hospitality has two jobs One is make sure the restaurants are full and busy and the second part is to curate the reputation or the appeal of the brand, which is mostly online.

Speaker 1: 8:23

Yeah, I think AI is definitely hot for all for um aspects of this. It can create and repeat the magic of your dining experience, perhaps, but, um, have you ever put any thought into sensorial ai, where an llm attempts to generate, um, uh, you know, taste, smell, ambience preferences for real people? Do you see AI starting to have input into synthesizer, like, do you see that as something beneficial from LLMs? I'm certainly seeing people talking about it, but I'm not seeing it actually implemented yet.

Speaker 2: 8:59

Yeah, I don't know, I'm in two minds on that regard, because, you know, hospitality is basically a social experience, right? So I'm't know, I'm in two minds on that regard, because hospitality is basically a social experience, right? So I'm going there, I could be on a work event, hosting clients and so on, or I could be with family and friends, and the experience itself is fundamentally socially orientated. So the human aspect of interacting with my friends and family and hosting the event or participating I really, at this point in time, don't know how far AI can go to offset or contribute to or represent some components of that, because the human aspect of our interactions with each other, our facial expressions, our body language, the tonality of the way we speak to each other, that is fundamentally what makes a great restaurant experience.

Speaker 2: 9:51

I mean, yeah, the food and the ambience is all very important. If I could, for example, we do pay a lot of attention to things like lighting and sound and how sound changes between lunch and dinner, weekends and weeknights, you know, and I think AI can certainly be imposed upon the aesthetic of the experience to help change the mood. You know, certain music, certain sounds, certain lighting effects create a warmer, richer environment that encourages people to interact more, as opposed to say, certain sounds, certain lighting effects create a warmer, richer environment. That encourages people to interact more, as opposed to say, for example, something that's really brightly lit and is very loud and obnoxious, which encourages us to get in and get out very quickly. Having worked in QSR or fast food, that concept is all about make it loud, make it bright and get people in and out right, Whereas in a restaurant environment you try to do the reverse.

Speaker 2: 10:46

So I'm not sure yet, but the context of AI helping to manage the ambience and managing the systems that control the ambience, I think it's inevitable, it's coming.

Speaker 3: 10:59

Yeah, it's interesting actually before you jump on that because Andrew and I were having lunch the other day in a southern diner here in the States and we noticed the difficulty for them to be able to fill their large tables where they had to share. And we were talking about how in Australia back in the day some of the really fancy restaurants brought out just a single table that everyone had to share and often you wouldn't be even seated together and we were talking about how that would degrade the experience, because when it comes to dining, much like you said, it's about the human interaction with your friends or your family or the social element that's in it. It just reinforces that. You know, any of those experiences that we curate really have to focus or let that shine through.

Speaker 1: 11:48

Yeah.

Speaker 2: 11:49

Yeah, yeah, I mean, I think if you think about when you talk to each other you know friends, family and so on and you refer to a dining experience, you'll typically refer to how it felt. You know, we had a great night together. It was so much fun, we laughed, we talked. Yes, of course, the food and the services is the experience itself, in a mechanical sense or in a functional sense, but what you tell your friends and your family is how the evening went.

Speaker 3: 12:17

Yeah, it's how you remember things is how you feel about them and your interactions with that brand it makes a lot of sense yeah With that.

Speaker 3: 12:26

In that regard, do you see some kind of hyper-personalization that could help in a marketing sense, you know, being able to take in environmental factors, of you know, it's a beautiful sunny day, Maybe you want to sit on a you know, by a window over the view of the Sydney Harbour and be dining with your friends and being able to send communications that have that kind of imagery in a generated kind of way? Is that something that you see as being useful, or or hot, or do you see more hype?

Speaker 2: 12:57

yeah, yeah, no, definitely right, because, uh, you know, apart from the technical aspects of the systems that we use, you know content is everything right.

Speaker 2: 13:09

So if you can generate content which creates a certain experiential expectation you know, by the harbour, you know enjoying a night together and, again, even people being generated from an AI point of view into a social context, a group of friends, a work event these things will inevitably be created artificially. Rather than us having to hire people and set tables and create so-called circumstances that we photograph in a traditional sense. We're already using that to produce covers, menu covers of individuals. So in the case of the Meat and Wine Co, it's a sort of an African-inspired concept, not literally, but in a generic sort of cultural sense, and we're using AI to generate covers of either animals and or African people, men and women, as inspirational sort of constructs that sit on the cover, that create a sense of the Africanness without it being too heavy-handed. So we already are executing that, but I think that will inevitably extend to all sorts of content, whether it sits on the website or it's used in organic and paid social.

Speaker 1: 14:26

I think this is a great segue into a topic I wanted to talk about. You mentioned that you had some experience there. They famously posted in a March 2025 blog post about their digital twins, where they're now using AI to generate content for their marketing campaigns. So their figures and I'm just going to read them out literally, Sorry, I'm going to quote directly Untangling content workflows and adopting this innovative approach, Trace from Thailand has seen results, including an 87% reduction in content creation costs, content generated twice as fast and a 5% increase in purchase intent. So from my perspective, I think there's a lot of operational benefit. Uh, certainly in in fast moving consumer goods and things like that.

Speaker 1: 15:16

Or ai generate content and those are some pretty compelling numbers. To explore it and you're already talking about how you're doing that to your menu, others and things like that Are you seeing any future for digital twin of food content appearing or optimizing campaigns or even personalizing content? The other week we had Dan from the San Francisco Giants talking about how they are experimenting with generative AI and marketing and they have a Star Wars day every year and when you walk in through the gate they'll take your photo and by the time you sat down at your seat. You know you'll be up on the big screen as a Jedi or some sort of Star Wars, so just taking that imagery and doing a bit of really basic AI really helps the fan engagement in their perspective. Do you see anything like that happening in, you know, the fine dining or the hospitality space or, you know, are there any applications for that sort of approach?

Speaker 2: 16:19

Yeah, definitely Right. So if you think about it, right, when we try and organize a photo shoot in a restaurant with human beings, you know interacting with food, it takes weeks. You know of pre-planning which dishes, which people, what day. You know we can't affect the operational. You know interaction on, you know the actual operating performance of the restaurants. We've got to pick a time and so on. It's very awkward. And so if I think about the two parts, one is the food and then the non-food, right. If I think about the non parts, one is the food and then the non-food right. If I think about the non-food elements, where we're talking about lifestyle and social, social gatherings and so on, then I think this can all be created right.

Speaker 2: 17:00

The I'm not sure at this stage how, at what point in time inevitable will come, but I'm not sure how good it is at this point in time to do the really really high end, close in food photography. That is an art form in itself and we use certain individuals selectively to create dishes that you look at and literally salivate. So we'd probably do it in a sequence of events. So, yes, the lifestyle, the general venue imagery, creating the mood, the tone, the feel of a particular location. Yes, definitely, that could happen quickly and also save us a lot of time and money. And I think, progressively, as the technology improves, the food will come. Beverages are easier, images of cocktails and wine and so on is all much more straightforward, but the food will probably be the last piece in the puzzle as we progress along. But you're right, it'll save us huge amounts of time. It'll save us the hassle and the cost of trying to organize restaurants and operations and talent to show up at a certain day and behave in a certain way.

Speaker 1: 18:12

So, yes, that'll, that'll come it's fascinating talking about uh drinks. Uh, I remember this from a few weeks ago. The hot thing going around was uh trying to get your uh llm to generate a full glass of wine. Uh, because no one photographs a full glass of wine. The AI could not generate a completely full glass of wine.

Speaker 3: 18:32

It was always half. Yeah, it was always half.

Speaker 1: 18:35

It was a typical glass filled. So a fascinating bit of tip there that if you're trying to get LLMs to generate something new like that, they're not going to do it, and that's why I think there's still a human in the loop essence for all AI as we stand today. Did you have anything else you want to chat about in that space? I've got plenty of topics. I think this is turning into a deep dive, so happy to keep going along. The other one I really want to talk about as well is TikTok Symphony, for example. They have the AI avatars, where it's a completely AI-generated person where they can do marketing videos for your product with a completely fictional AI character.

Speaker 1: 19:18

I was just wondering again what are your thoughts on that? Do you see that impacting marketing in a large way? Do you see it as problematic for brands? Is it weakening of the brand voice? Can we trust the content? You know? Uh, we see it in the news cycle. Right, it's becoming hard to tell the difference between real news and what's ai or fake. It's true that I'm right. I I saw a stat today on on reddit of course, the source of all truth that most North Americans now get their news from social media and not from any large news brand. So that's now done. I'm surprised it's taken this long to be officially captured or deemed that way. But basically the large brands are suffering even further and I think that's definitely for a whole bunch of reasons. But I'm just wondering, you know, would something like an AI avatar weaken brand messaging or weaken brand voice? Do you have any thoughts?

Speaker 2: 20:19

on that? No, I don't think it's an issue at all. The point is that the advertiser has to know what it is they're actually trying to say, rather than it being AI, right? So, like, the difference between good content and bad content is usually that the advertiser themselves isn't clear what benefit or value they're actually trying to communicate. Okay, all right.

Speaker 2: 20:47

So obviously I've been doing this for quite a while and I've seen a lot of content and generally it'll be. For example, I'll give you an example just to make this clear. So I'm going to a steakhouse to have a steak, right. The content bad content will typically be I show the steak, I show the steak on the grill, I show the person cooking the steak, I show the person plating the steak, I show the plate showing up at the table, I see the person cutting the steak, I see the person eating the steak and then interacting with their friends, right, so they try and cram in the whole thing from start to finish, whereas if I'm trying to communicate that this particular restaurant has the best steaks in the world, then I'm going to concentrate literally on the steak and be more deliberate in relation to how it's cooked and the flames.

Speaker 2: 21:38

So I showcase excellence or expertise, rather than trying to do a hundred things Likewise. If I'm talking about the experience, then I don't care about the kitchen. I just want to talk about the fact that Andrew and Olivia have got this intimate relationship dinner together, celebrating a milestone in their lives, and I want to show how that makes them feel. So I'd argue that there is no issue whatsoever with it being produced from an AI perspective.

Speaker 3: 22:08

It's more to do with the client knowing what particular thing they're trying to communicate so that the recipient of the content will react emotionally in the way that you are trying to achieve coupling the usage of content creation in a very refined and deliberate way against personalized segments, would you feel that's going to be very hot to be doing more and more of to be able to get faster and better at that.

Speaker 2: 22:54

Yes. The simple answer is yes, olivia, right. So how do I communicate a really fantastic food experience while on a short lunch? How do I communicate a group of friends six or eight people celebrating someone's birthday over a long evening with lots of wine and fun and fun?

Speaker 2: 23:21

So, yes, I think in each, as long as we're clear what it is we're trying to say and what outcome you want the recipient of the content to experience, then it's not a problem. And then, obviously, having all the right, having all the data to understand, you know, for instance, from an item level, detail point of view, in these dining experiences, what combination of things you know, for instance, if it's a big group of people having a celebratory you know, birthday event, as opposed to a couple of business people grabbing a quick lunch. I need to understand the elements of the dining experience, the actual items, the drinks, the amount of time, how they behave, so that I can replicate that from an AI point of view. So the person looking at the content projects themselves into the situation and goes, yep, okay, makes sense to me, I understand.

Speaker 3: 24:11

And how you would overlay that in a sense of loyalty, to make it stick for the customer and the consumer as well. Right, how do you make those experiences sticky so they're repeat? And you know, is that something? Messaging of the guy that's always there doing business gets a very different kind of set of messaging about being the business dealmaker that he is or her that she is versus. You know people that like to celebrate things together.

Speaker 2: 24:40

Yeah, correct, yes, you know. And how that person, given the information you know, from how the data is understood from an AI point of view, so that when that person arrives at the venue, for example, not only messaging them in advance to acknowledge their relationship with the venue or the brand advance to acknowledge their relationship with the venue or the brand, but also when they arrive, so that the first experience they have on arrival represents who they are, you know. Hey, great to see you again. You were here last Tuesday. You ordered the Tommy's margarita. Would you like to start again with that? Whatever it might be, but from the point of view of how you contact and interact with the customer prior to dining as well as on arrival and then during the experience, all of these things will be made easier from the point of view of the way AI can investigate the underlying data.

Speaker 3: 25:32

Yeah, I've got a kind of flip side question for you before you jump back in there and you're asking some more. But it's you know, obviously you're a senior and very experienced and you would have people trying to sell you AI solutions every day of the week, Multiple times a day.

Speaker 2: 25:47

Olivia.

Speaker 3: 25:49

What are you seeing that? You just see it and go oh, that's overhyped.

Speaker 1: 25:55

Yeah, I was going to say are you asking for hype now, Olivia, I am asking Give me a nice top five of what you see as being hype.

Speaker 3: 26:00

Yeah, I was going to say are you asking for hype? Now, Olivia, I am asking Give me a nice top five of what you see as being hype and needs a little bit more maturity before it's actually useful.

Speaker 2: 26:06

Well, I'm pretty good at deleting most of that stuff right on arrival.

Speaker 1: 26:11

You don't even remember, you're not remembering the AI targeting for AI sales.

Speaker 3: 26:16

It didn't make you feel the right way.

Speaker 2: 26:18

The problem is that the initial interaction, you know from the point of view of the way it's always on email, right, it's an email from some person or an organization and they always.

Speaker 2: 26:29

There's only two approaches that I can recall that is sort of uniform for the whole thing. First one is you know we will radically change your performance by increasing your whatever it is by 30% and reducing your cost by 50%, and you need to have this conversation. There's that approach, and as soon as I see that, I delete because there is no context whatsoever for myself personally, the company, the brands, the industry nothing. It's just a bunch of random crazy numbers being spat out, right, there's no benefit, there's no solution or benefit or identification of the underlying challenge that a client may have. And the second one is usually it. It's more difficult because they it comes in from the point of view of you know, maybe you don't understand, maybe you're in the dark, maybe you know things are moving too quickly and you haven't kept up? Or have you seen this latest evolution which can make you look like a hero?

Speaker 3: 27:39

A little sheer, or heroism.

Speaker 2: 27:41

Yeah, it's always like a bunch of statistics performance statistics being over-exaggerated and making you as a client feel like you have to jump on that because otherwise you'll be left behind or they're treating you like you're somehow ignorant of the general evolution of the market. So, if I'm being specific, what tends to come is generally in two components. One is performance metrics associated with web and search. There's a lot of that stuff coming every day how we can transform your website and transform your search results and radically increase your web sessions and web volume and therefore leading to you know, amazing outcomes. There's a lot of that stuff.

Speaker 1: 28:28

And the second part, hmm, I was going to say that traditional SEO is dying quickly. You know, people are being able to buy straight out of search results. Now Google blew everybody away a few weeks ago with their….

Speaker 3: 28:44

Google.

Speaker 1: 28:46

IO, Correct. Generative engine optimization is really the hot kid in town. Optimizing your content from betting in an LLM. You know you don't just want to be discovered by Google search results, you want to be discovered by the LLMs. When someone goes to ChatGPT and says where's a good steak dinner, you want your company name there, right, Correct? That's the new race. And people trying to sell you SEO over email I think that is all bad business for them. Sorry for interrupting, David.

Speaker 2: 29:19

I just had to get that one out, Andrew, you're spot on right. That's what they're trying to sell. You know somehow it's like it's sort of a miracle solution. Plug this in and you'll be a star right.

Speaker 3: 29:33

Yeah, talking to some of the other members of your team as well, they were recounting a demo that they went to recently that did everything and it was amazing, until she asked about how your data gets in there. Do all of these things? Yes?

Speaker 2: 29:49

exactly.

Speaker 1: 29:52

I think the data issue is always number one. Look, your AI is ever only as good as your data. Right and trust is the other big issue. You've got to have a trust with your consumer and the consumer's got to trust the AI, so you've also got to balance that. So demoing a product without building trust and even addressing regulation particularly if you're a multi-continent business, I think, is something you've got to address from a governance perspective as well. So there's a lot in there to unpack and I really should do we really should do an episode one day on AI governance, which I think would send a lot of people to sleep or maybe get some people excited.

Speaker 3: 30:31

Yeah, I like it.

Speaker 2: 30:32

It's a tricky one right, because the technology is moving way, way faster than the ability of any regulator to keep up with it. Right, totally. But going back to the search part, right, I mean, the Google stuff is interesting in that obviously we're pretty deep in SEO and the relationship with the agency. They're explaining to us exactly what the AI overview function of Google is all about and what type of content we need to create. You know, informative content which showcases expertise in a field and knowledge, rather than just a bunch of keywords, you know, being repeated through body copy. So, again, it's one of these crazy situations where it's the same but it's different.

Speaker 2: 31:19

Simultaneously, people will still want to look for information.

Speaker 2: 31:23

Yeah, okay, maybe I won't type in steakhouse near me, I might type in a steak restaurant in the city that has disabled access and great cocktails, whatever it might be, cocktails or whatever it might be.

Speaker 2: 31:44

And then you have to have information which is informative enough, such that, from an AI, seo or search overview point of view, google will continue to see that as authoritative and productive and serve you up as the solution.

Speaker 2: 31:55

Right, so it is changing, but it is always still the same in the sense that the obligation of the client is to satisfy the informational or the search in this particular context, whatever the requirements are of the guest base to say, how do I now provide that information in a way that satisfies the technical structure of the way AI is managing and looking at search. Right, and you can see, obviously, that Google's trying to offset the chat GPT thing and the same way that you know Meta and Instagram is trying to offset the TikTok thing. All of a sudden Meta is produce reels. We will support you, you know, create more short form video content. So it's the same and different simultaneously. The technology changes. Ai is certainly an accelerator, like a radical accelerator, but at the end of the day, we still have to find a way to connect with people that are looking for a certain outcome in their lives and how to provide the solutions.

Speaker 1: 32:59

I think that's an excellent way to maybe bring this deep dive to a close. We still have to find a way to connect and I think, while AI can accelerate certainly what we're doing, it doesn't replace in a sensorial sense what humans want from fine dining and the hospitality experiences.

Speaker 3: 33:20

Well from each other in general.

Speaker 1: 33:21

From each other.

Speaker 3: 33:21

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2: 33:22

That's why it's called hospitality. Right, we've got to find a way to be friendly, to make sure that when you come in, you have a great experience, whatever it is that you're doing, whether it's work or personal, that we have some insight into it so that we can facilitate a better experience for you. Some insight into it so that we can facilitate a better experience for you. So, hopefully, that you'll tell your friends in a word-of-mouth context and or come again. So we still have to find a way to connect as humans. Ai will help us do all of those things quicker, faster and more effectively.

Speaker 1: 33:56

But connection is still a solution. Yeah, well, certainly Any last words.

Speaker 3: 34:00

uh, olivia um, I think there's a lot of generative ai components, especially around generating multimodal kind of outputs that are hot. That will be very useful in the life cycle from a marketing perspective and I think there's a hell of a lot of hype out there.

Speaker 1: 34:18

Totally From my perspective. My last thoughts were I think today we've certainly talked about human versus machine creativity, as well as understanding the experiences that people want. We certainly talked about data quality mattering and the trust of the brand, and I think we've discovered as well, or certainly explored, the impact that AI is going to have on even dying experience for people. So that's that from my perspective, david, last words, and we'll close out.

Speaker 2: 34:50

Yeah, I think, at the end of the day, the role of the marketer is to encourage customers to take certain actions right, and AI will certainly help us do that quicker, more efficiently, more affordably. But we still have to make sure that we understand what it is we're trying to do to get the individual human being to react in a way which is emotionally motivating. So it will complement all the things that we do. It will save us time, money and energy, but we have to stay conscious of the fact that we do. It will save us time, money and energy, but we have to stay conscious of the fact that we're still trying to connect Perfect.

Speaker 1: 35:26

I think you've heard it here today on another episode of Hot or Hype. Thank you very much, david, for joining us. We really appreciate your experience and I'm sure the audience will enjoy the insights, particularly those people out there trying to sell you SEO. They know now how to target you better, so watch your mailbox. It's going to be hot. Okay, thank you very much. Thank you, thank you.